Chin Wag At The Slaughterhouse: Interview With Shaun Jeffrey

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170x255Shaun Jeffrey is the author of three published novels, ‘The Kult’, ‘Deadfall’ and ‘Evilution’, and one collection of short stories, ‘Voyeurs Of Death’.

His writing is dark and tense and among his other writing credits are short stories published in Cemetery Dance, Surreal Magazine, Dark Discoveries and Shadowed Realms.

‘The Kult’ was optioned for film by Gharial Productions. His next novel ‘Fangtooth’ will be released by Dark Regions Press shortly.

He met me at The Slaughterhouse where we talked about monsters and the current world of publishing.

Do you think the worst monsters are humans?

Absolutely. When dealing with human monsters such as serial killers, they actually exist. These are no made up ghouls. They could very well be out there now undertaking everything from cannibalism to ritual murder. Some people have no moral compass and that is a terrifying thought. Even more terrifying is that you or I could very easily be their next victim.

Dictators have turned to cannibalism. To what extent do you think the ultimate manifestation of control is the desire to consume another’s body and what does this illustrate about the horrors fiction authors write about?

I guess that would be called ruling with an iron stomach. If it’s not for a survival purpose such as during famine, then cannibalism seems to be more to do with esoteric purposes, acquiring the power of the person they consume in the same way that people will eat animals such as tigers in the belief that they will become as strong or virile as said animal. In horror fiction, I believe writers want to get underneath a readers skin (rather than eating it) and cannibalism is one of the greatest taboos, so it makes for a disturbing subject with which to illustrate horror in its rawest state.

Do you think that horror fiction is the literature of subversion?

It’s not so much about rebelling as much as it is about getting to the root of fears and giving them form. To me horror fiction should elicit an emotional response. It’s the stuff of nightmare, the stuff that should make you look over your shoulder; check that the doors are locked; leave the light on. By writing and reading about that which scares us we are in some way facing those fears. And it’s a safe way of achieving this aim without risking life and limb.

Ultimately this is a good thing and it stems back to primordial times I guess when we would have been chased by sabre toothed tigers and such like, providing the ‘fight’ or ‘flight’ response necessary for survival. Now that we don’t face as many natural predators, and unless you put yourself in dangerous predicaments, I think that fiction and film can still help us tap into that emotion and give it an airing.

Who are your literary influences?

I started reading from an early age and used to devour books. I still prefer reading a good book to watching a film as it’s a much more intimate and personal adventure. As a kid, I distinctly remember enjoying books, such as The Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom Planet by Eleanor Cameron. Imaginative books such as this opened my eyes to the power of words. Then in my teens I discovered short story collections such as The Pan Book of Horror Stories edited by Herbert Van Thal, which featured lurid, gory tales that I thought were absolutely fantastic (I remember borrowing a friend a book called The Satyr’s Head and Other Tales of Terror and said friend having to give the book back to me because it had scared him too much. I found this quite funny at the time, but again it made me realise how powerful words can be).

Then I started reading authors such as Guy N. Smith, James Herbert, Shaun Hutson, Graham Masterton, Ramsey Campbell, Stephen King etc, so I guess my early literary influences were from what I think of as the golden age of horror, when new books seemed to appear all the time, books with cheesy covers that epitomised their pulp status. I guess add to that the fact that I grew up in a house in a cemetery and I was never going to be writing for Mills and Boon.

Do you think it is possible to write a made for film novel and if so what are its characteristics?

Interesting question as I get a lot of people saying that my novels are ‘cinematic’ in nature and that they feel that they are watching a horror film – I guess that might be the reason why The Kult has just been filmed by an independent production company called, Gharial Productions, and I was lucky enough to fly out to the US last year to see some of the shoot. I think that to write a ‘made for film’ novel it has to be very visual in its execution and that said novel has to paint a picture with words that make people believe they can ‘see’ the image you are describing. The story has to come alive on the page and it has to be engaging. As with anything to do with literature, it’s all about the words. Finding the right word to describe what you are trying to get across. Some people have a knack for it. I wouldn’t personally put myself in that category, but other people seem to think so and who am I to argue?

Do you think that certain types of murder are sexually motivated and what do you think the pathologies behind them are?

Yes, without a doubt. There are numerous high profile sexually motivated serial killers, people like Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Peter Sutcliffe and the Moors Murderers Ian Brady and Myra Hindley.

It’s reported that many of the perpetrators come from broken homes and have a history of being neglected or abused as children. This is why they pray on vulnerable victims such as children, young women, prostitutes, and adolescents. Of course this isn’t true of everyone that has been raised in these circumstances. Learning plays a big part in the way a person behaves; as does their true personality, which comes down to the nature or nurture argument.

Are people born evil (nature) or made evil (nurture). Some scientists believe that people behave as they do according to genetic predispositions. This is known as the “nature” theory. Other scientists believe that people think and behave in certain ways because they are taught to do so. This is known as the “nurture” theory. I found this a fascinating subject, enough so that my latest novel featuring the protagonist from The Kult, is based around this theory and questions whether killers can be nurtured, or whether it’s something they have to be born with.

In my opinion, the pathologies behind these crimes are a combination of both nurture and nature. The seeds are probably already there, but something happens that makes them sprout.

Tell us about ‘The Kult’.

OK, without reciting the back blurb verbatim, it’s a story about Prosper Snow who made a pact with his school friends to exact revenge on anyone that wronged them. This usually took the form of anonymous beatings, but then once they’ve grown up, a member of the group comes and asks for their help. But this time he doesn’t want someone beaten up. He wants them killed. This of course poses moral dilemmas, not least because Prosper is a police officer sworn to uphold the law. Blackmailed into helping, Prosper and his friends try to get away with the murder by blaming the crime on an active serial killer called The Oracle, but then things go from bad to worse when the serial killer starts hunting them down.

As I mentioned, the book was optioned for film and was shot last year around San Diego . Post production has just finished and although I don’t know all the details, I guess they are now looking for a distributor. Sadly since then the original publisher of the novel has gone bankrupt, but the book is available for download via all the major eBook distributors such as Amazon, Smashwords, Barnes & Noble etc. The story is quite graphic in the vein of Saw or Se7en, so it’s not for the easily disturbed, but it’s the book that I’m most proud of, and which I think is my favourite of all my works because I tried to make the characters as real as I could. Prosper is not an inherently bad man, but when he tries to do the right thing, things invariably go wrong and he ends up breaking more laws than he upholds. I’ve just finished a second novel featuring Prosper that once again puts him in a difficult position. It’s a stand alone novel, but obviously events from The Kult have shaped who he now is. I’ve already signed a contract for the novel, so I’m hoping to see it released later in the year.

Elias Canetti in ‘Crowds And Power’ writes: ‘In the mental disease whose processes most closely resemble the workings of power the urge to unmask appearances becomes a kind of tyranny. This disease is Paranoia and there are two characteristics by which, among others, it is particularly distinguished; one of these, in psychiatry, is called dissimulation… paranoiacs are so skilful at dissembling that many of them are never identified as such. The other characteristic is the continual urge to unmask enemies.’ How relevant do you think this observation is to crime and horror writing and the characterisation of the pathologies that inhabit it?

All writers are crazy. They have to be as writing is hard work, often for little reward. I remember seeing a sign that said, ‘You don’t have to be mad to work here, but it helps’. That should hang above every author’s desk.

Now whether consciously or not, I think authors dispel a lot of their demons through their work, so perhaps this is us ‘unmasking our enemies’, enemies in this case being those internal dilemmas that need a form of release. As the old adage says, ‘write what you know about’, so it’s easy to imagine that authors the world over are putting a little bit of themselves in all they write, writing what they know, which is their thoughts and deeds. Whether these are dressed up in sci-fi, crime, horror or fantasy, all stories have characters, and all characters are given life by the author.

What do you think about the current world of publishing?

The past few years have seen vast changes. The internet has opened up whole new avenues, first with the way work can be submitted, and now with the way it’s published. Before the advent of the internet I used to submit all my work by snail mail, and then waited weeks or months for a response. Now most markets allow an emailed submission, which means that your work and your enquiries arrive almost immediately (of course the responses can still take weeks or months). And then now of course we have the arrival of the eBook, a format that many authors are taking advantage of. This has both good and bad points. Some authors are making a lot of money via eBooks, while others linger in obscurity. What was once thought of as taboo is now becoming acceptable: self-publishing.

And of course, while there are some good books available, there is also an awful lot of unedited dross. In this brave new world it’s also not true that the cream will always rise to the top, as some of these works are priced so cheaply that people buy them anyway if it’s something they think they might like. The marketplace is huge, as we’re talking the whole world where anybody can download a book at the click of a button and have it delivered immediately, but competition is fierce.

With this in mind I think that publishers should be worried. Bookshops are going bankrupt and many high profile authors such as JA Konrath are becoming ambassadors for the merits of self-publishing (and Barry Eisler reportedly turned down a $500k publishing deal in favour of self-publishing his next book) and while there might only be one out of every 1000 authors that has a modicum of success, there are thousands more stretching their literary wings and bypassing the conventional route of agents and publishers and going it alone in search of fortune and fame.

Graham Greene said writers have a piece of ice in their hearts. What do you make of his observation?

Although I’m not familiar with the quote, I think he probably meant that authors sometimes have to be cruel. We create characters and situations that need emotional involvement, but as the creators of said characters we sometimes have to kill our babies. It can be hard to do this when you’ve spent so long creating them, and so sometimes it’s not just a piece of ice that we harbour, it’s a whole chunk. I guess it could also refer to the kind of detachment a writer has to have, to be able to look at a something objectively, no matter how disturbing the subject matter may be. We also create situations that most people wouldn’t like to ponder, as a good story is all about conflict, and to do that can take a certain detachment. I guess we’re all cold hearted to some extent. Some more than others.

Thank you Shaun for giving a perceptive and informed interview.

SJ 243x300Visit the online home of horror writer Shaun Jeffrey here.

‘”The Kult” – People are predictable. That’s what makes them so easy to kill.’

Watch the film trailer on Shaun’s website or on YouTube.

Read a sample of ‘The Kult’ here.

‘The Kult’ and other books by Shaun Jeffrey can be found at Amazon in the UK and US and at Smashwords.

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10 Responses to Chin Wag At The Slaughterhouse: Interview With Shaun Jeffrey

  1. L.C. Evans says:

    Thank you for posting this interesting interview. I don’t normally read much dark fiction, but The Kult sounds like a great book.

  2. Miss Alister says:

    Great interview, Mr. Jeffrey, all the way around! I’d only fuss a bit about the writing a made-for-film novel answer. Not that I know a thing about a thing, but I think Heywood Gould’s POV on writing such a novel is on the money. He said— Well, you can read his Chin Wag for yourself, but he ended with “…but the general rule is: Write a best seller and you’ll get a movie deal,” which may be the real reason you got your movie deal… I’d say it’s why I bought ‘The Kult’ just now, plus the fact that I watched the film trailer. Holy geezus but it creeped me out in the best possible way! I looked everywhere, when’s it gonna be released?

    And Mr. G? Great Elias Canetti question. And I always like to see what they say to the Graham Greene ice question : )

  3. Another terrific Chin Wag interview. A small note–your mentioning THE WONDERFUL FLIGHT TO THE MUSHROOM PLANET brought it right back to me–I can still see the cover! Your thoughts on the e-volution are well taken. I agree that it’s both a wonderful thing, for all the authors who might not have broken in, and ones who did who are doing better this way than they ever did traditionally. But I worry about the clogged pipelines. I believe that Barry Eisler did wind up signing a contract with Amazon Encore versus self-publishing–not sure what that says about the brave new world. Thanks for a great post.

  4. AJ Hayes says:

    No matter the genre we always come down to the question: Nature or Nurture? There is a third answer I’m coming to think more about. Harry Crews and Chris Benton hold the view that the basic bedrock of all writing in all genres (and all forms of psychosis and human nature) is love. Worth more than a little thought, I think.
    The required, “Beware. Crazy Person,” sign indeed should be standard over every writer’s desk — if only because we cannot quit this mug’s game that torments us so.
    George Clayton Johnson and William F. Nolan wrote Logan’s Run as a complete movie script thinly veiled as a novel. It was a great novel but a terrible film because, as George C. told me once, “You hand them a wonder and let them turn it into shit because they pay you incredibly well to walk away and let them to do that.” I think no matter the status of the “best seller” Hollywood buys, it is always subject to that.
    I wonder if the company used the Steven Segal Studios down here in Dago town ( as the Hells Angels call San Diego) to film The Kult?
    Thanks guys. Helluva interview (and I didn’t even get a chance to ask if part of Shaun’s nurture was informed by the IRA/Britain open warfare of decades ago.)

  5. Thanks for interviewing me, Richard. Very much appreciated.

    And thanks for the comment, L.C.

    Miss Alister, I felt the question you referred to was open to interpretation, but of course you’re right in the respect that if you write a best selling book it might stand a better chance of being filmed, but for someone like myself, where the book isn’t a best seller, I think the book has to have something that makes a producer want to film it, so perhaps the fact that they could ‘imagine’ it as a film as they were reading helped. But then again I might be wrong. And thanks a million for purchasing a copy. Hope it doesn’t disappoint. As for when the film will be released, and in what format, I don’t know yet. After selling the rights it’s not really anything to do with me any more but I hope to hear some news soon.

  6. Thanks, Jenny. It will be very interesting to see what the world of publishing is like in a few years, as these changes seem to be coming at an unprecedented speed.

    Interesting AJ, because when it comes down to love, the word can be a double edged sword. Someone evil may ‘love’ doing what they do, where to someone else, love is simply a strong emotional bond to someone or something. Certainly worth some thought though.

    As for the filming of The Kult it was all done on a limited budget (which is why scenes from the book that would have cost a fortune have been changed or not used) but I don’t know everywhere that filming took place, or what facilities were used I’m afraid. As for the IRA and Britain war thing, my only references were reading – or watching – about events that happened. It was a troublesome time and I imagine feelings still run deep for those closely involved.

  7. Chris Benton says:

    Harry told me a few years back, ” I hope you realize that writing is Love and its many profound, profane forms,” or something along those lines. I believe love is the fundament, and evil is just a word describing it’s manifold deformations…

  8. Chris Benton says:

    By the way Shaun, look forward to reading your stuff. As soon as I have the spare loot. Already twenty other people for whom I’d promise to buy their books/ anthology and I’m only washing dishes right now. By the way, Herbert and Hutson are fucking gods, love those prolific psychos from the eighties…

  9. Well Chris, there’s certainly the love of writing, without which I doubt many people would slave away at it (it doesn’t get any easier – in fact it probably gets harder as you have to keep trying to improve your craft). And yes, the stuff from the late seventies and early eighties was when horror was at its peak. New horror novels were appearing all the time as more and more people jumped on the bandwagon. A few stalwarts are still around, but sadly with the demise of horror, many of the original authors disappeared too or they turned their craft to more lucrative markets when the ship started to sink.

  10. richardgodwin says:

    Thank you Shaun for an insightful and articulate interview.

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